Note - This transcript is automatically generated and has not been checked for errors.

Welcome to the NextGen Work Culture podcast, where leaders learn to support working parents, because being a family friendly business isn't just a nice to have anymore. It's essential for businesses that want to stay competitive, and it is critical for the next generation and those who are raising them. I'm your host, Courtney Ross, and I am so glad that you're here. Welcome back to the NextGen work culture. Today I am speaking with, with Ryan Helmond, who is the author of the book a Passion for Monday. So, Ryan, can you tell us a little bit more about you and what you do?

Ryan Houmand00:00:42 - 00:00:47

Yeah, I'd love to. I'm so happy to be on your podcast. First of all, it's just so, yeah.

Kortney00:00:47 - 00:00:48

Thanks for joining us.

Ryan Houmand00:00:48 - 00:01:38

Yeah, ever since I met you, we were at an event in Orlando, and I've been looking forward to this. I'm glad we finally got to put it together. So, yeah, my background is in, is in management, mostly frontline management, actually, and lots in several different organizations. Most of my time is spent to a couple of big ones, ADP and the Home Depot. And so my background really, my whole thing about a passion for Monday came ten years ago when I lost my job. They had told me at one of the companies I worked for that you're really good at engaging employees, and we don't know what you're doing, but whatever you're doing, keep it up. And I'm glad they didn't ask me because I didn't really even know what employee engagement was at the time, but they were telling me that every time they got a survey back, my scores for my team were really high. And so then a couple of months later, they walked me out the door and said, today's your last day.

Ryan Houmand00:01:38 - 00:02:19

And so then I got to thinking, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? And I remembered, well, they told me I was good at employee engagement. Maybe I should figure what that, figure out what that is. So I started doing it, and then I actually got an opportunity to, well, I started actually consulting and training managers on this, and I actually got an opportunity to speak at an HR event. And I said, I want to speak on employee engagement. And they said, we're all kind of tired of hearing about employee engagement. You know, that's an old thing. And I'm like, huh? So I got to market this differently. So I decided, well, what it really is is that you love Monday, just like Friday, but for a different reason.

Ryan Houmand00:02:19 - 00:03:01

So we know why we love Friday. We've got some time to do what we want. But what if we could do what we want Monday through Friday as well? And so that's really what it's been about. And building work culture, not to engage, engage people in what they do. And it's, we know from some of the data out there, Gallup gives us a statistic that says 70% of the variance on employee engagement is attributable to any, to your direct supervisor. And so while we can have something to do with it by what we choose to do, for the most part, it's on work culture. And so to be able to be on your podcast on next gen work culture is just an awesome opportunity for me. So I appreciate your willingness to let me.

Ryan Houmand00:03:01 - 00:03:01

Come on.

Kortney00:03:02 - 00:03:26

Yeah, Ryan, I'm glad you're here. So we talk about how you could support working parents a lot, but most of that really just boils down to having an excellent work culture. And as you said, a lot of that kind of comes back to the managers and the people managers and how they're treating their people right. So I wonder, can you tell me the four mistakes that might make people hate Monday?

Ryan Houmand00:03:26 - 00:04:01

Yeah. And I appreciate you asking that because it's what I talk about in my book, compassion for Monday. And it's interesting because I'm going to probably share a little fifth one that somebody brought up to me the other day. I was on a walk with a friend of mine, and she said, you know, there's another one you ought to think about adding into the next edition of your book. So I might update that. But we're going to talk about the four because I haven't really figured out that fifth one yet. I'll talk about it, but I don't have an icon for it. So one of the things that I decided a while back is I needed to have some sort of icon for these mistakes so that people are like, hmm, I can relate to that.

Ryan Houmand00:04:01 - 00:04:41

So the four mistakes are these. The first one is what I call the Michael Jordan mistake, and that is trying to be good at everything. So it kind of goes back a ways. But Michael Jordan, at the pinnacle of his career, went to play baseball, and everybody was thinking, what are you doing, Michael? And even after a year and a half, he started wondering, what am I doing here? This isn't what I do best. So trying to be good at basketball and baseball and golf and whatever else made it so he couldn't really be great at what he was best at. So he ended up going back to basketball. So how often do we do that in our careers? We see somebody get recognition for something over here. And we think, oh, they're getting recognized.

Ryan Houmand00:04:41 - 00:05:16

Maybe I should be good at that thing, too. And it's not what you do. And so we unplug from what we're really good at because somebody else is getting recognized for something they're really good at. So that's mistake number one, trying to be good at everything. I call it the Michael Jordan mistake. Mistake number two is what I call the Marty McFly mistake. So if you know the movie back to the future, and this goes back a ways, too, there's, in the first. The first movie, there's a memorable moment where he's walking along with his girlfriend Jennifer, and she says, marty, you got to send your demo tape for your band into the record company.

Ryan Houmand00:05:16 - 00:05:41

And he's like, what if they don't like me? What if they say I'm no good? What if they say, get out of here, kids. You got no future? I just don't think I can take that kind of rejection. Because he was fixated on his weaknesses. So mistake number two is fixating on your weaknesses, what I call the Marty McFly mistake. And we do that, too. We think, I'm not really good at anything. And it holds us back from being really, again, really trying to excel in what. What is.

Ryan Houmand00:05:41 - 00:05:57

What we do best. You know, maybe what our calling is. Mistake number three. I've got an icon for this one, too. It's the Bruce Jenner mistake. Now, this one goes back a ways, too, but at the time, wrote the book. It was really apropos. So Bruce Jenner in.

Ryan Houmand00:05:57 - 00:06:46

Well, actually, Caitlyn Jenner in the first interview said, I was Bruce Jenner for 65 years and miserable. And how often do we do that? We take the advice of some trusted counselor or advisor or parent, a great friend or whatever, and they say, you should go do this for your career. And then we get down that path, and we realize, this isn't what I wanted to do. I know somebody who followed his father in his father's footsteps. His father was an electrical engineer, and this guy was the youngest of eight children, and nobody else had gone into the family business of being an electrical engineer, so he kind of felt pressured to do that. Well, by the time he got to be 40, he said, this isn't what I wanted to do. I've been an electrical engineer for now, what, 20 years? And I hate it. And he always wanted to be a doctor.

Ryan Houmand00:06:46 - 00:06:52

So what did he do? He had the courage to unplug from being an electrical engineer and go to medical school at age 40, but now he's a doctor.

Kortney00:06:52 - 00:06:53

Wow.

Ryan Houmand00:06:53 - 00:07:11

In his mid fifties. So those are the types of things we're talking about. And the fourth mistake is having a bad boss and keeping them. So having a horrible boss. So the horrible bosses is those movies. And my icon for this one, you have a horrible boss and you keep them. That's your mistake. And sometimes it's like I say that to people.

Ryan Houmand00:07:11 - 00:07:41

It's like, well, I have a horrible boss, but that horrible boss was inflicted on me. I didn't choose them. And sometimes we don't. But sometimes we did apply for a job and we find out after the fact that we have a horrible boss. So it may not be your mistake that you made initially, but make no mistake, it is your mistake. If you continue to have that horrible boss, we have to do something different because it's just going to ruin your work experience. And we don't just live to work, but if we're going to work anyway, we ought to be happy. And then I'll just give you a little insight into that fifth one.

Ryan Houmand00:07:41 - 00:08:19

So I was walking along with one of my friends about a week or so ago, and she said, I was reading your book, a new friend, and she said, there's something you're missing. And this one might be, I think this is kind of apropos to your audience, too. She said, it's, it's imposter syndrome. So I need an icon for that. Maybe it's the character, and catch me if you can. I don't know, but imposter syndrome. And she said, she's a doctor, and she said it's a problem for everybody. But she says it's particularly a problem for, for working women in that men seem to just, you know, if there's an opportunity that comes up, if they meet two of the qualifications, they go for it.

Ryan Houmand00:08:19 - 00:08:58

But women tend to think, no, I don't. I only meet two of those qualifications. I can't go for it. But men do it, and then they sometimes get that job or get that opportunity. And she's like, we need to talk about that more. So in an upcoming edition, when I put a new cover on that book, it's going to have the fifth mistake that makes people hate Mondays, and that's imposter syndrome. So, so that's just a little view into what I see as a consultant out there now for ten years, working with organizations, these are the things I see people doing. And then what I try to do is help managers because I think people, leaders should be doing people things I stole that from a friend of mine.

Ryan Houmand00:08:59 - 00:09:27

He's an HR senior person. He said, people leaders should do people things. And I try to get organizations to help their people do that because so many organizations are just getting that wrong. They're having their people leaders do project management and other initiatives within the organization, and they get maybe 20% of their time to devote to their people. And that's just a shame because then people get ignored. So anyway, it's a long story. Thanks for letting me tell it.

Kortney00:09:27 - 00:09:49

No, I love it. So I think that a lot of the kind of research out there indicates that people leave bad managers, not necessarily bad places or bad companies. Right. A lot of it has to. It boils down to the manager. So what can managers do to help people avoid these five big mistakes?

Ryan Houmand00:09:49 - 00:10:34

Yeah, that's a great question. And when we think about that, we think about those mistakes. It's, you know, people are typically reacting to the environment around them. And when we think of, like, trying to be good at everything, it's managers can be better at recognizing, giving praise and recognition for doing good work. Now, we know some of the data out there says that praise and recognition has a shelf life, and it's usually around seven days or so. So we got to make sure we're giving frequent praise and recognition to our people. So if somebody's making the Michael Jordan mistake and trying to be something, trying to be good at everything, it's because they're seeing other people getting recognized for things they're good at doing. And it might be because I have this need to be recognized for what I do well.

Ryan Houmand00:10:34 - 00:11:29

And if my manager never sees that, never notices, it never gives me praise and recognition for doing what I do best, I'm going to start to think I'm not doing the right thing. I'm going to start to think that what's expected of me is what they're all doing. And so one of the things that we also know is about half of people in the US who have jobs don't know what's expected of them at work. And part of that is how are they being recognized and reinforced? What reinforcement are they getting for the good work they're doing? And a lot of managers I talk to say, well, I don't do that because they get paid for doing their job. I'm not going to recognize them for doing their job. And I always turn that on them and say, well, what if nobody on your team showed up tomorrow? Would you be happy that they were just showing up to just do their job and that usually turns the table on that a little bit. And they say, yeah, okay, good, good point. And when you think about it for the last time, you got recognized for just doing great work.

Ryan Houmand00:11:29 - 00:12:16

How did that feel? I mean, you probably had more energy for three or four or five days. After that, you know, you're more productive because you got more positive energy. One thing, when it comes to some of those other mistakes, like your weaknesses, well, we tend to do managers tend to exacerbate that problem because they, we have an annual review or something and we talk about, we maybe pay lip service to somebody's strengths and we say, yeah, but you don't need to worry about those. Let's work on these areas of improvement or our weaknesses. We hate weaknesses so bad. We come up with some goofy name like areas of improvement, which they aren't, by the way. If it's a weakness, you can work on it and make it better, but it's never going to become a strength. So, so we say, we say, well, that's great.

Ryan Houmand00:12:16 - 00:12:26

Those will take care of themselves. Work on these things that you're no good at doing. So managers need to stop doing that and play. Allow people to play to their strengths. For the third one, it seems like.

Kortney00:12:26 - 00:12:36

Those two really go hand in hand a lot, you know, that's a great point. Find your strengths, play to your strengths. Don't focus on your weaknesses. Find somebody else that's good at that and let them focus on it.

Ryan Houmand00:12:37 - 00:12:37

Exactly.

Kortney00:12:37 - 00:12:55

As a manager, it seems like you can kind of help the team figure out who's the best at this and who's the best at this and, and try to get them kind of in their lane, so to speak, and working on the things they're really great at. They're kind of zone of genius and don't focus on those weaknesses and areas for improvement.

Ryan Houmand00:12:55 - 00:13:36

You're exactly right. I mean, and that's so, that's so key, and that's what we tend to do. And about 60% of people think it's a better idea to work on their weaknesses than their strengths because for the same reason, we get that drilled into our head, that, well, their strengths will take care of themselves. But, yeah, you're right. I mean, that's a key point as managers. If I'm a manager, I have the bird's eye view to say, well, somebody's really good at this and somebody's really good at this. And, you know, a job description is 5 miles wide and somebody might come in at really excellent at mile one and good out to mile two, but mile three, they're okay. But miles four and five they should never even delve into because they're going to mess it up royally.

Ryan Houmand00:13:36 - 00:14:01

And somebody else on the team comes in strong at mile five. So we can individualize what people do on our teams and that's the luxury we have as managers. So you're exactly right. That's a great point. And I'm glad you mentioned zone of genius because that's a concept in a book that really changed my life ten years ago. The big leap. And we don't tend, tend to work in our zone of genius. The people who are really famously successful tend to work in their zone of genius.

Ryan Houmand00:14:01 - 00:14:19

Oprah Winfrey has a quote that I love. She said, I know you made reference to staying in your lane. And she says, I know where my lane is and I know how to stay in my lane. And that's what we need. That's what managers can help people do. So just some ideas there. And I've got more for those other mistakes, too, but I know.

Kortney00:14:19 - 00:14:26

Yeah, what about them? Give us a quick version. What about mistakes three or four? What kid managers do to help with that?

Ryan Houmand00:14:26 - 00:15:07

Yeah, so that's the other thing about, like the Bruce Jenner mistake and trying to be something you're not. This also kind of goes, managers don't have to work too hard to find these things. And it's like, I made this mistake as a new manager. I would say, I would look at what the work of my team, and they had similar roles in the job I first had. And so I thought, well, they need to be similarly good at everything. And so sometimes I'd fixate on something that somebody wasn't doing well at the expense of knowing or realizing and recognizing the things that they did really well. So again, it comes into that five mile wide job description. I'm harping on them, I'm taking corrective action.

Ryan Houmand00:15:07 - 00:15:47

I'm giving corrective feedback on this one thing. They're not very good at ignoring all the things they're really great at instead of just unplugging them from that and saying, look, it's like when I was taking my driver's test to get my driver's license for the first time, and the guy who was giving me my test, he was, I was supposed to parallel park and I was going to screw it up. And he said, I'm way behind. Don't tell anybody this. No, I'm telling everybody this. But he said, it's going to fail you on parallel parking because if you hit the cone, you fail the whole test. So just don't, we'll just give you 90 instead of 100 and we'll both move on from this. And so he's like, you're going to screw this up, so don't do it.

Ryan Houmand00:15:47 - 00:16:09

And that's what I should have been doing with those people on my team. You're going to screw this up. And that's okay because you're really good over here. So that's another thing managers can do. And then on the horrible boss mistake, don't be a horrible boss. I mean, look at the things that engage your team. And I like to fall back on the twelve elements that Gallup has rolled out. And the survey they use is called the Q twelve.

Ryan Houmand00:16:09 - 00:16:27

And they have things like, I know it's expected. I've received praise and recognition the last seven days. My opinions seem to count those things. If managers can focus on those twelve things and knowing that their people agree or strongly agree with those things, they're going to be not a horrible boss. And so that's how you can do that, right?

Kortney00:16:27 - 00:16:32

Yeah, it seems like that one should be the easiest thing for managers to control.

Ryan Houmand00:16:34 - 00:17:05

Exactly. Just stop. If you're being a horrible boss, just stop. And if you don't know if you are, look at your engagement surveys and if you're having one and we don't look at those very, in the appropriate way. The engagement survey really is a report card for the manager and a lot of organizations don't treat it that way, and it really is. And we should pay attention to those. And when you have a good survey that asks the right questions, you can really, and this is what I do for organizations. I'll go in and say, oh, this manager is struggling here.

Ryan Houmand00:17:05 - 00:17:27

And here's why. Because on this question, his or her team is rating this really low. And then when they, when they do that, this is probably what it's telling you. And invariably I'll go in and say, could this be happening on your team? And they're like, yeah, it is happening on my team. What do I do about it? You know? So those are the things. So look at your engagement survey if you want to resolve mistake number four.

Kortney00:17:27 - 00:17:42

Yeah. And I'm sure that those engagement surveys could bring a lot to the surface. You know, if you really actually look at them as a reflection on the managers, you know, as a report card for the managers, they're very telling.

Ryan Houmand00:17:42 - 00:18:09

They can be, for sure. Yeah, I'm working with an organization right now and we're just recently my most recent one where we did an engagement survey and now we're looking at those and it's like, oh, well, this manager is probably struggling here. And that's what we do. We go in and say, could this be a problem? And they're like, yeah, it is. I thought, how did you know? You know, but surveys can tell us, if we use a survey that asks good questions and the right questions, it'll tell you a bunch of stuff.

Kortney00:18:10 - 00:18:14

Yeah. So do you use a specific engagement survey? Do you have your own?

Ryan Houmand00:18:14 - 00:19:11

Yeah, actually I do use the Gallup on that q twelve when I'm consulting because there is so much science behind it. But the other thing is a lot of surveys ask similar questions and so you can use that as a proxy. And I've helped other organizations. When I worked for the Home Depot, I helped one of the Home Depot stores that was really struggling and they've been struggling in the lowlands of their engagement for about three years in a row. And they used their own survey and it asked some similar questions to those twelve. But regardless of how that survey came out, when they asked me to help this store, I said, all right, let's use these twelve elements. We're going to focus on these things and we're going to do initiatives around, I know what's expected of me and I have the tools and equipment I need to do my job right and those sorts of things. And when we did, did that for a year and we took the survey the next year and where they had been struggling.

Ryan Houmand00:19:11 - 00:20:04

So they have a hundred point scale on their survey and this store had been at a 72 for three years running and you have to be at an 80 if you're going to be a successful store manager at the Home Depot. And this manager had come to me and said, I know you do this, I know you do this because I actually was working with the Home Depot after I started this consulting and she said, I just need help or I'm not going to have my job next year. And we don't need to get to 80, but we need to start showing some upper progress. Well, in that year we went from 72 to 79. It had been 72 all year long. We made the progress by focusing on those twelve elements. And some of the questions in the Home Depot survey actually mirror those. So it was easy to see where they were struggling and actually kind of surgically do the right things for that store.

Ryan Houmand00:20:04 - 00:20:10

And it paid, you know, it got everybody's attention because it's sort of unprecedented to go up seven points in a year. Like that.

Kortney00:20:10 - 00:20:22

So, yeah, that's a lot. I think that's another kind of important thing to note about surveys, I guess, is you can't just, like, send the survey out once a year and be done with it. You got to do something with the data, right.

Ryan Houmand00:20:22 - 00:20:46

You got to do some work. Yeah. And it's funny because when she said, can you help me? I said, yeah, but I'm not. I honestly know, slagging on the Home Depot, but their process, at least back then, was not a good one for improving those scores. And I said, if I'm going to help you, you got to let me do it my way. And she said, I'll run all the interference you want. Just help me not lose my job a year from now. So she went on to great things there.

Ryan Houmand00:20:46 - 00:20:47

So it was good. Yeah.

Kortney00:20:47 - 00:20:55

Well, good. That's good. Ryan, is there anything else that you want to share with my audience before we end here?

Ryan Houmand00:20:55 - 00:21:53

Yeah, I would just say the kind of the catchphrase I use is everyone should love Monday, just like Friday, but for a different reason. And if you don't start to look at those things for yourself, too, are you in your zone of genius? And if you don't know much about that, that book that I referenced, the big leap, really does a good job of going through that. But what do you do? What are you sort of called to do? And if you're not doing that thing, take a good, hard look at it and say, what do I need to do to make those changes? And it's hard because if you're, like, in your zone of excellence, that's where people want you to be. Your family wants you to be. Your employer wants you to be. The voice in your head wants you to be there because it's easy, but there's still something calling to you that you might be able to break into, and it's not always as hard as you think. So love Monday, just like Friday, but for a different reason. If you don't have start asking yourself some questions.

Kortney00:21:53 - 00:21:57

I love it. We're going to love Mondays. So, Ryan, where can we find you at?

Ryan Houmand00:21:57 - 00:22:17

So actually, I am between websites, but by the time this gets posted, it should be out there again. Find me on LinkedIn. So we'll get a link for that. But also it's going to be lovemondaylikefriday.com. lovemondaylikefriday.com dot. So I had. I'm transitioning over, and I'm actually without a website for the next couple of days, but it should be up there. Very soon.

Ryan Houmand00:22:17 - 00:22:27

So go out to there. Hit me on LinkedIn. I mean, if you find my name out there, I'm the only person that I know of on the web with my name. So if you find me, you found me. So. Yeah.

Kortney00:22:27 - 00:22:33

And we'll be sure to put the links in the show notes, too. Ryan, thank you so much for, for chatting today. Thank you.

Ryan Houmand00:22:33 - 00:22:34

Thanks for having me on. Courtney.

0:03 - 23:01

If you enjoyed this episode, I know you'll love the future ready work culture framework. Head over to courtneyross.com to download your copy and start building a family friendly, future ready workplace today. Don't forget to subscribe to the nextgen work culture so you never miss an episode. I'd love it if you'd also take a moment to leave a review. Until next time. Take care.